America: Yea or Nay?

[Doorbasher]

I thought this discussion about wether the US and it's ploicies are good or bad deserved further debate, so I made this thread. Plus I didn't want to clog RT. Maybe we can revive the soap box forum.

So is America a savior, a rapist, or something in between? Discuss.

[Haysoos]

Something inbetween. Being a cynic and a pessimist about the human race, I view most organizations as corrupt of ill. I'm at work, so I dont have time to discuss, but I will continue later.

[Tanaban]

Me from RT thread:

Even though I put on a façade of trusting general people around me I don't, humans are just animals who got the right combo on the genome to get us where we are now. The scariest thing to me is that if this is the only planet in all of the depts. of space that supports life... and we're doing what on it?! Or if there is other life but we're the most advanced... o shit that’s just sad.

[heineken]

Sorry I didnt notice this thread. I replied directly from the
automated email notification.

http://www.thinkhardware.net/forum/showpost.php?p=53569&postcount=6984

I say Yea.

[Cosmic_Assassin]

I was going to respond to this thread, to try to give you some idea of what the American soldier thinks, but I think it would be better if I just leave it alone. I start gettin all agitated, and I don't need that agitation today. Later...

[Tobalaz]

I'd love to hear what our troops think about the whole deal. I love my country, I think we just need to put somebody with some sense into office to prevent stuff like this from happening. 9-11 was avoidable, bothe the CIA and FBI had information on it, but a bill signed by President Clinton disallowed communication between the two agencies, so instead of a serious issue, it wound up looking like nothing more than a paper threat. Would our troops by dying right now if we'd had elected someone different into office other than Clinton at the time?
Just goes to show, we've got to change a few things, and the only way we can is with our votes. So you lazy sob's that won't vote, get informed and vote to make our country a better place.

[Haysoos]

No matter who you vote for, you're voting for a politician, so it's lose lose. I have no faith in any politician because they debate on whos fault it is, not what the solution might be. Right now, the hot topic is about stuff that happened a year ago. Who cares, its done and you cant change it, so instead of telling us what shit bush put us in, why dont you come up with a plan to fix it! What, you might lose votes if people dont like your plan? So fucking what. I would love to see a politician do something that garantees he lose the re-election, but really benefits the people or the country. Dont get your hopes up kids, it'll never happen. The president doesnt care about you, he just wants your fucking tax money. Congress sees you as a stepping stone to boost their bank accounts using corperate america to trample your rights. The government doesnt like it, the governemnt likes the money you make. You are a tax ID. I cant vote for anyone I dont feel is a good, honest person, and I have yet to find one.

[Tobalaz]

I vote independant. Republican/Democrat is never anything more than the lesser of two evils. Independants lay it out for you as what they want to do, where as the standard R/D choice is nothing more than a smear campaine against the other to cover their failures. Remember Ross Perot? He came right out and said "I'll raise taxes, but, this is my plan" and since he was HONEST about what he was going to do, people voted for a smuck who raised taxes after a "Read my lips, no new taxes" speach.
I guess it's all about lip service, honesty doesn't get you into office, lies do. I'd rather put an honest man with a solid plan into office if it means turning things around for us.
As far as taxes go, wages have never kept with inflation, and we're still using the SAME tax table, if wages had, you'd have to be making over 120,000 a year to get taxed. Mesed up huh?
Georgie "Dubya" Bush is as ass. He's screwed over our own troops by cutting combat pay to troops by half, lengthened their tour time, and just hosed them in general. I say God bless our troops, but screw Dubya.

[heineken]

I was gonna mention Ross Perot but Tob beat me to it.
I vote mainly so I can bitch about who won or lost.
I think if you dont vote then you really dont have a right
to say anything. Unfortunately, The above statements are
true and there rarely is a canadate worth voting for.

It sucks and all but I would rather live here then anywhere
else. People else where are all being mistreated/misrepresented
by their governments. Maybe not so much as here, but I
belive this to be our own faults. People buy SUVs and then
bitch about gas prices, people cry out about big business,
then shop at Costco and Walmart. Its all alot of barking
and little to no biting. I know people who are hardcore about
their beliefs, but most of them are so to a degree which ends
up being pompous and annoying.

Im the last person who you'll find following trends, and jumping
on band wagons, but I too enjoy getting good prices on things
and not having to pay smaller retail store prices. What we as
a people must do, is weed out what is truly immoral business
practices and cease giving these people our money.

Once these old codgers in office die off, I can only hope that
some younger and fresher minds come into power. Ones with
the same ideals and ethics that I find worth voting for. Until that
day, I, as an American, am obligated to be a conscious citizen,
while keeping the faith that eventually someone with a clue
will arise out of the murky swamps of ineptitude.

[Haysoos]

Dont get me wrong, I love my country. But our election system is a joke and the political world can be summed up as the popular cliche in middle school: A bunch of self centered snobs spouting rumors and gossip. I cannot vote because I cant find anyone that I can say I would support. Yes I bitch about the government, but I bitch about the people who run it in general, not specific people. I have a right to bitch about there being no one worthy of voting into office. I dont have 3-4 hours a day to sift through bullshit just to see who is the lesser of evils between people I wouldnt be sad to see burned alive. I shouldnt HAVE to. These people are here to serve US, thats what our government is built on, but all they have is self interest. If I knew enough to change anything, I would, but I have trouble keeping up with my own life, so changing the political world has to be put on the back burner while I try to figure out how Im going to live my life for the next 30 years so I dont have to flip burgers when I'm 50 years old. Because I know for damn sure the government wont do shit for senior citizens...

[heineken]

This is what the party system is all about. In general, one
party favors one way of thinking, while the other favors another.
This is why voting for your local delagates is of the utmost importance.

Where I lived in Queens, I had the luxury of being a member of the
country club where our senator was also a member. Luckily enough
for us, he was an active member of the community and was more then
willing to listen when you had something of interest to talk about.

Dont forget, that the President, although at the top of the totem pole,
is probably the last person to have any bearing on new laws and
tariffs. These are the brainchildren of Congress. So next time you say
that there is no one person you would vote for, remember that
local politicians are equally important as any other elected official,
and their say is maybe not equally important, but certainly important.

I really encourage you to vote Hay, If not for the president, then atleast
your local government. hahah even though a funny phrase I heard was this:

If pro is the opposite of con, whats the opposite of progress?

EDIT: and yes I know the president has the overall last say on new bills,
but the bills that are posed to him are the work of the lesser people.

[SupermanJnk]

I like congress....
con·gress ( P ) Pronunciation Key (knggrs)

5. Sexual intercourse.
O_O :mischievo :hmm: :eek:

[Doorbasher]

Another big problem is that many people simply vote along party lines. They don't even bother to check where s/he stands on the issues, beyond maybe a TV commercial or two. They just get votes because they're a democrat/republican. The people are the problem here. They put their brains on autopilot, and don't make any real decisions. They just go with the default.

Another thing is that the skills required to get elected aren't the skills required to pe a good congressperson/president. In addition, getting elected these days takes money. A lot of money. Who are the people who have a lot of money? Those who have spent their lives in pursuit of it. And so what will they do when they get into office? They pursue money, often at the expense of those they represent. Granted, there are exceptions to this rule, but it are a bit disconcerting in its accuracy, no?

[heineken]

Sadly enough you could say that the elections are bought and paid for.

I think the reason most people do that is becuase of the
past preformance and actions of previous cabinets they have,
or have not voted for. I with minimal voting experience,
rarely decide based upon party, but moreso on who slings the
least mud during a TV Ad war.

As people get older, I.e. parents, they see trends in certain things
that a younger person could never have seen. True, that could be chalked
up to complacency, but adults are not all stupid, and people with informed
opinions realize the magnitude of what politics involves.

We're not just talking about one person. We're talking about the way every
diplomatic/economic/whatever endeavor for the next four years, and how their
outcomes will coincide with the political ideals of the current party.
We vote for a set of people's ideals, not necessarilyfor one person in the
singular sense. If in fact it was like that, we would be a monarchy.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think Bush is the sharpest knife in the draw, but
the reality of it is, I don't think one of us here (here is the hook) could state
entirely bad things about every event that has transpired under Bush's presidency.

I don't really know Kerry's stance on a lot of issues, I'll be honest I have no clue.
But he did serve in a war, and was under fire for probably more then 10 minutes,
so he's probably got somewhat of a head on his shoulders.

How many of you guys vote? Or ar now leagally entitled to vote, and hav'nt?

I know after this one, you'll laugh, but: I hope we all read each others posts,
becuase I think this is where the true essence of a forum is achieved.
Granted, bullshit posts are fun, and Ive had my fair share. Though I thoroughly
enjoy it more when its used to express more tangible depth.

[Kashmir]

I don't like Bush, I never liked Bush and will continue to dislike Bush well into the 2004 elections and beyond. He is a liar and a schemer and a piss-poor representation of this country. Not only that, but the man is about as intelligent as that of a talking monkey.

Unfortunately, those we get to choose from in the presidential lineup fall unerringly short of what it really takes to make a good leader for this country and sadly we are left to do one of two things: vote simply based on our political preference (Rep. Dem. Lib. etc.,) or on the lesser of all evils.

I am all for this country and the ideas (not ideals) we have, but sadly the values we had and what once was the backbone for this country, are far gone. Nowadays it is about who has what and how much and how we can get our hands on some of it, uncaring of how we get it and sometimes to the sacrifice of our family, friends and other loved ones. We sacrifice our children and their futures to greed, plain and simple.

Our healthcare system is a sham. Is is bought and paid for by the drug companies and insurance companies who in turn back/fund/payoff those in government who should be representing the people but instead line their own pockets and cast blame elsewhere for bills not getting passed when they should be or bills getting passed when they shouldnt be.

It is truly a sad thing when we have families struggling to put food on the table or begging on the streets for just enough to buy a .99 cent cheeseburger from McDonalds, but yet last year alone, nearly 636,000 households earned between $500,000-$1,000,000 and an average of 240,000 households earned an average of $1,000,000+ We pay people millions and millions of dollars to play pretend for a few months just so we can watch them on a tv screen or in a theatre while we pay our teachers a crap salary between 15k-30k and wonder why our kids are illiterate. We pay athletes millions and millions of dollars to throw a ball or to advertise a sneaker but yet our cops and firemen earn an average of 30k a year and we wonder why some turn corrupt and start taking bribes/handouts. We pay millions of dollars to singers/dancers/musicians and wonder where our kids get the idea they should dress/act/idolize the things they do how how teen pregnancy and STD's/AIDS percentage is rising in their age bracket.

There is so much wrong with this country and it is steadily getting worse and worse with each year and each president. The sad thing is, we vote these people into office to represent us and we are out there taking care of other nations and other countries and their economies while ours is steadily declining and what is even sadder is that we have noone but ourselves to blame.

I am tired of being a caretaker to those that beg for our help and then spit in our faces after we set them back on their feet. I am sorry, but everyone and everything else outside this country needs to be put on a back burner until our own people are taken care of first and foremost. Whatever is left over, we can provide to those most worthy and appreciative and needing.

[Tobalaz]

I am tired of being a caretaker to those that beg for our help and then spit in our faces after we set them back on their feet. I am sorry, but everyone and everything else outside this country needs to be put on a back burner until our own people are taken care of first and foremost. Whatever is left over, we can provide to those most worthy and appreciative and needing.
Amen! And we need a real choice instead of the lesser of two evils.

[heineken]

Did everyone vote in the Bush election? Noone has mentioned
if they have, but I see a lot of "we vote" so I guess I'll just assume yes.

[d0nk`]

i cant vote yet, so i didnt vote.....

nor am i into politics.....

[heineken]

nor am i into politics.....

Dont let that stop you from voting when you're able!