Washington to ban 'violent' game sales

[Haysoos]

Washington to ban 'violent' game sales (http://money.cnn.com/2003/04/18/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/)

Read, discuss.

This pisses me off, not the bill, but the gaming industries reaction to it. COMPROMISE, both sides need to find a middle ground where we get video games with whatever content we want, and keeps that violent content out of young hands. This bill is a step in the right direction. It DOESN'T prevent violent videogames we all know and love, in fact, it does has nothing to do what what content is created in video games. They are policing video game creation, but instead the sales of violent video games to minors. And the one's punished are the people who sell the games, not the ones who make or buy them. This is like creating a fine for places that sell alcohol to people under 21, it makes sense!

I do agree, its the parents job to decide what their kids do and dont play, but this doesnt prevent that. If the parent goes out and buys the game for their kid, its all fine, cause the parent is of age. This prevents the kid from buying the game, probably without parent knowledge or consent. In other words, this could help parents enforce their decisions, because now if a parent says no to a violent video game, its harder for the kid to just go out and buy it him/herself.

On the other hand, parents nowadays are a fucking joke and dont do their fucking job anyways. They buy their 8 year old GTA3VC then wonder why their kid acts violently. the game was made for ADULTS, not for fucking children, be a parent.

The only bad thing about the ban is the vagueness of the offence. It bans "games depicting violence against public law enforcement officials". What the hell?! Why not use the already established but unenforced rating system. Last i checked, a child couldn't buy a "parental advisory" CD or a rating R movie, or even get into a rating R movie at the theaters. If this works for movies and music, why not apply it to video games? Then fine the hell out of retailers that dont follow the law? it's a win-win situation. Then when parents buy a rated Mature 18+ video game and have to show ID like they were buying a pack of cigarettes or porn, they might think that this game isnt for their 6 year old...

[Haysoos]

update, the bil has been shot down for now. click here to read about it being shot down (http://www.gamespot.com/all/news/news_6071445.html).

[Tobalaz]

Behind Jesus 100% on this one.
More power to Washington on this one, some type of fine needs to be implamented to keep just anybody from buying "Adult" games, although the current rating system should be used instead of such a vauge statement like depicting violence toward public law enforcement officials. Kids should not be playing games like GTA just like they shouldn't be buying smokes, liquor, drugs, ect.... It should be common sense to the parents M means mature so this game is no good for little Billy. Jesus is dead on with the "Parents nowadays arn't parents to their children" bit, I've said the same thing before myself.

[AMGpower]

Beans isnt gonna like this one. :lol:

[Scale]

I don't tend to like games that fit that description, I'll put in my two cents anyway.

I agree that an eight year old shouldn't be playing games like GTA3. However, I don't think that a video game can have that much influence on what a person thinks they can and can't do. Am I going to play GTA3 and be like, inspired to go and shoot people up? An eight year old might, but anyone with the slightest amount of maturity would know better. If they go and shoot people up, they had mental/emotional problems and would probably have done it anyway. I've had mass murder urges in the past, but that was when I was going through a lot of mental agony and depression. I didn't get those ideas from any video game, and now that my emotional condition has improved, I don't have those thoughts anymore.

The parents always have to blame the music, the movies, the video games... they never realize that maybe it's THEIR judgement, criticism, and bindings that gives their kids self-esteem problems and stuff like that. They'll point fingers at anybody but themselves.

[d0nk`]

personally, i dont care for the current rating system. i liked the system used on the older games, like duke3d or rott. they had little thermometers showing the level of violence, sexual content, 'adult' languge, and other stuff. i personally believe that it is up to the purchacer (likely a parent if rated 'M') to decide if their kid is mature enough.

[Haysoos]

Originally posted by Scale@Jul 12 2003, 11:35 AM
The parents always have to blame the music, the movies, the video games... they never realize that maybe it's THEIR judgement, criticism, and bindings that gives their kids self-esteem problems and stuff like that. They'll point fingers at anybody but themselves.
damn skippy. i agree 110%.....however i dont agree with your paragraph before that.

The problem is, people think video games are for kids since in videogame's infancy, they were. Kind of. Its not that they were FOR kids, its that they were so simple in terms of graphics and gameplay that it appealed to kids more than adults because kids have better imaginations and enjoy simper things. Now, games are realistic and complex, and you can barely find a game for kids at all.

GTA3 CAN cause people to be violent. Lets be realistic and not get defensive. Generally, people under the age of 10-12 CAN be influenced by media VERY easily, its why smoking ads aimed at children work so well. Children ARE easily influenced, thats how you mind is designed when you're young, its meant to be a sponge, soaking up everything around you. So you let a kid soak up massive violence from games and movies when hes younger, games and movies that dont show the moral wrongness of the violence, then that child hits puberty and begins the rebellion stage, what do you think is gona happen? its NOT rocket science.

People have tried to study whether violent video games and violent media cause violence in children. Stop studying, i know the answer, it's YES. Now study this:
VIOLENT VIDEOGAMES SHOULDNT BE PLAYED BY FUCKING CHILDREN. They weren't MADE for a developing mind, they were made for a developed mind that knows right and wrong and the difference between fantasy and reality. Now instead of telling parents across the nation how GTA3 is a horrible game for their children, which they should fucking know, tell them be parents and pay attention to what games they buy their kids and what games thier kids are playing. Same goes with movies and music. Censoring things isn't usually my style, but children need it, they need positive influences, so that they can grow up and enjoy violent media without it affecting thier behaviour.

You can either rid the world of what you dont want your child involved with, leaving him/her sheltered and ignorant, or you can teach them right and wrong so they dont need you to shelter them. Do your fucking job and raise your kids your damn self.

[JC Denton]

This is pretty much the same rant I posted on Slashdot (http://www.slashdot.org). The rating system, ESRB, MPAA are all corrupt as fuck. Looking through some of my old games it's hard to wonder why AvP2 can be rated "Teen" when it has marines gunning down other marines/aliens/predators. What about the cutscenes where we see skinned corpses hanging from a ceiling rafter, still bleeding. Yet, it's rated teen. Safe for anyone thirteen or older.

I look at STV: Elite Force, a Star Trek first person shooter (don't dog it, it's actually pretty good). It's got phasers, rifles, and other futuristic weapons. There's never any blood, and when an enemy dies they're usually vaporized (as if it were the holodeck). For example, the Borg fall on the ground and disappear a few minutes later. Species 84702 disappears in what looks like a green beam. Sure as an adult, I'd like to see more violence and blood/gore in a shooter, but the game was still fun without it. Yet, for some stupid fucking reason. EF is rated mature, 17+.

Are we starting to see two sides of one warped issue yet? Either the people rating these things are totally different and have extremely different tastes about killing/shooting/weapons, or there is something corrupt in the industry.

And do any games ever get the doom-saying AO (Adults Only)? Kingpin only got mature, and AFAIK there aren't any AO games.

[Scale]

Originally posted by Jesus@Jul 12 2003, 02:43 PM
Its not that they were FOR kids, its that they were so simple in terms of graphics and gameplay that it appealed to kids more than adults because kids have better imaginations and enjoy simper things. Now, games are realistic and complex, and you can barely find a game for kids at all.
I totally agree with that. I could really get into those old Sonic games for Sega when I was twelve, but now.. it's just not interesting enough.

And Kirk.. that is seriously messed up. Skinned corpses? I would vomit. That makes no sense.

[Haysoos]

Originally posted by Scale@Jul 12 2003, 06:33 PM
I totally agree with that. I could really get into those old Sonic games for Sega when I was twelve, but now.. it's just not interesting enough.
Thats my point, When video games started, they couldn't make them with complex stories or life like graphics, and the result was simple games that kids enjoyed. The games adults enjoyed were the puzzle games. As time went by technology skyrocketed and more complex games could be made. Better graphics and more complex stories appealed to the adult crowd, and the only people who seemed to realize that videogames could be and were an adult medium were the game makers and gamers. At least, thats what seems to be the only people who noticed. So the game makers started making adult games. Why doesnt this make sense to non-gamers?

Video games are like interactive TV. You have some movies or shows with compeling storylines, in depth characters you can relate to, etc etc, then others with senseless sex and violence with a paper thin story. It's the same with video games now. Some games dont have much of a story (doom) but are GREAT action games, where as other are ALL story (Myst). And like tv/movies, games can be made for kids or adults, and we use a rating system to keep kids out of adult movies. Why dont we do the same damn thing for games?!

BTW, im a tad bit outspoken about this topic. I view games on the same level as music, movies, tv, books, etc etc as media and should be treated similarly. Its BS that people label games as something for kids and not adults. Games are better than TV and Books to some degree because you have to think, solve puzzles and such, think strategically, and you are PART of the story, rather than simply a viewer. At least, thats how it is with the games i like to play. Because of this, games are kind of like the next evolution of media, like interactive stories, and can be aimed at adults or children just like any other media...

[JC Denton]

http://www.esrb.com/search_results.asp?rat...=game&x=64&y=10 (http://www.esrb.com/search_results.asp?rat_6=Adults+Only&count1=6&desID0=32&desYes0=Alcohol+Reference&desID1=8&desYes1=Animated+Blood&desID2=24&desYes2=Blood&desID3=28&desYes3=Blood+and+Gore&desID4=37&desYes4=Cartoon+Violence&desID5=4&desYes5=Comic+Mischief&desID6=31&desYes6=Drug+Reference&desID7=23&desYes7=Edutainment&desID8=38&desYes8=Fantasy+Violence&desID9=27&desYes9=Gambling&desID10=22&desYes10=Informational&desID11=39&desYes11=Intense+Violence&desID12=30&desYes12=Mature+Humor&desID13=13&desYes13=Mature+Sexual+Themes&desID14=10&desYes14=Mild+Language&desID15=25&desYes15=Mild+Lyrics&desID16=34&desYes16=Mild+Violence&desID17=41&desYes17=Nudity&desID18=42&desYes18=Partial+Nudity&desID19=40&desYes19=Sexual+Violence&desID20=15&desYes20=Some+Adult+Assistance+May+Be+Needed&desID21=11&desYes21=Strong+Language&desID22=26&desYes22=Strong+Lyrics&desID23=14&desYes23=Strong+Sexual+Content&desID24=12&desYes24=Suggestive+Themes&desID25=33&desYes25=Tobacco+Reference&desID26=35&desYes26=Use+of+Alcohol&desID27=21&desYes27=Use+of+Drugs&desID28=36&desYes28=Use+of+Tobacco&desID29=20&desYes29=Use+of+Tobacco+%26+Alcohol&desID30=29&desYes30=Violence&count2=31&platID0=12&platID1=17&platID2=18&platID3=19&platID4=20&platID5=32&platID6=5&platID7=34&platID8=33&platID9=38&platID10=22&platID11=3&platID12=6&platID13=36&plat14=PC+CD-ROM&platID14=24&platID15=11&platID16=30&platID17=25&platID18=37&platID19=26&platID20=13&platID21=14&platID22=31&platID23=7&platID24=8&platID25=15&platID26=10&platID27=4&platID28=16&platID29=35&count3=30&pub=&key=&type=game&x=64&y=10)
To broaden my point abit. Notice how all the adults-only stuff is, porn. Nothing but porn games. Great!

[Tobalaz]

All of the ratings systems need an overhaul. Remeber when movies got a R rating when there were more than three curses or just a quick shot of nudity? Now that stuff dropped to a PG-13. M ratings on a game are the same as a NC 17, so its like every time you give your kid a M game you may as well have taken him/her to see Showgirls or a soft porn movie. If more parents thought in those terms maybe the adult games would stay out of kids' hands. There needs to be some sort of board that plays and rates these things evenly.

[JC Denton]

Originally posted by Tobalaz@Jul 13 2003, 11:03 AM
All of the ratings systems need an overhaul. Remeber when movies got a R rating when there were more than three curses or just a quick shot of nudity? Now that stuff dropped to a PG-13. M ratings on a game are the same as a NC 17, so its like every time you give your kid a M game you may as well have taken him/her to see Showgirls or a soft porn movie. If more parents thought in those terms maybe the adult games would stay out of kids' hands. There needs to be some sort of board that plays and rates these things evenly.
Exactly, a movie could have said "fuck" one time, never had any violence or any nudity and could have been rated "R." Games, do need an overhaul. Now, I wouldn't want to see Beans go out and play Kingpin or something :o. But, FFS, let's not be so stereotypical on our game titles.

[tonymark01]

Originally posted by Captain Kirk@Jul 13 2003, 01:18 PM
I wouldn't want to see Beans go out and play Kingpin or something :o.
Does the demo count? :P

[JC Denton]

Originally posted by ILikeBeans+Jul 13 2003, 12:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ILikeBeans @ Jul 13 2003, 12:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Captain Kirk@Jul 13 2003, 01:18 PM
I wouldn't want to see Beans go out and play Kingpin or something :o.
Does the demo count? :P [/b][/quote]
I don't really remember if the demo curses that much, but the retail version is a helluva lot worse. I don't think you can decapitate people either :(.

[mOOkie]

The game Vietcong pisses all over GTA in terms of swearing. Check out the training sessions and the number of muthafuckers used by the drill sargeant.

[Haysoos]

Swearing is nothing, its language, and whats condidered "cussing" has changed over the years. Now you can say "bitch", "damn", and "hell" on TV, just not "fuck". Now violence is violence... Someone getting their head cut off is not for children, not 10 years ago, not 100 years ago, and not now...

The game ratings could use an overhaul, but thats not the MAIN problem. The main problem is that people dont give a shit about game ratings! You could have the best, accurate rating system in place, but until parents realize that games ARE rated, and "Mature" means "dont buy this for your fucking 8 year old", the rating system will fail. Game stores need to raise awareness about the rating system and the seriousness of it. They should have a big sign showing the different rating levels and stating VERY BIG that Mature games SHOULDN'T be played by people (children) under 17 (14-15 IMO)...

[Tobalaz]

Originally posted by Jesus@Jul 13 2003, 05:02 PM
Swearing is nothing, its language, and whats condidered "cussing" has changed over the years. Now you can say "bitch", "damn", and "hell" on TV, just not "fuck". Now violence is violence... Someone getting their head cut off is not for children, not 10 years ago, not 100 years ago, and not now...

The game ratings could use an overhaul, but thats not the MAIN problem. The main problem is that people dont give a shit about game ratings! You could have the best, accurate rating system in place, but until parents realize that games ARE rated, and "Mature" means "dont buy this for your fucking 8 year old", the rating system will fail. Game stores need to raise awareness about the rating system and the seriousness of it. They should have a big sign showing the different rating levels and stating VERY BIG that Mature games SHOULDN'T be played by people (children) under 17 (14-15 IMO)...
Swearing has pretty much become commonplace anymore, I hear cursing from people under 20 just as much as those 20+.
Stores are nevergoing to encourage awareness because its all about sales. We need to start hitting retailers with $500,000 fines for selling these games to minors to keep them honest. Then we need a whole CSPAN series on "Violence in videogames and how to use the rating systems on these games to protect your children." A few nice pieces on "Games, they're not just for kids anymore" in the mainstream media would help.

[Haysoos]

Originally posted by Tobalaz@Jul 13 2003, 04:15 PM
Then we need a whole CSPAN series on "Violence in videogames and how to use the rating systems on these games to protect your children." A few nice pieces on "Games, they're not just for kids anymore" in the mainstream media would help.
AMEN!

All the media wants to do is say "look here violent videogames!", rather than say "Heres violent video games, dont buy them for your children. Heres how you can tell what games are for your kids or not."

Also Tob, the bill that started this thread was just what you said, except a $500 fine... Honestly, fining people for selling violent video games to kids is a small step, raising parent awareness is the big step. Most of the kids in my high school smoked, did drugs, watched pirated movies, and listened to pirated CDs. Fining retailers WONT stop kids from getting the games, because they'll just get them from somewhere else. Hell, at MML i got 5 new games off the network, and I KNOW im not the only person who did that. Fact of the matter is, parents need to be doing their job, they need to be aware of whats going on...

[Smithmeister]

I bought many games from best buy with mature labels without being 17 before lol. I should go sue them.

[OtterPop Junkie]

Originally posted by Jesus@Jul 13 2003, 02:02 PM
The game ratings could use an overhaul, but thats not the MAIN problem. The main problem is that people dont give a shit about game ratings! You could have the best, accurate rating system in place, but until parents realize that games ARE rated, and "Mature" means "dont buy this for your fucking 8 year old", the rating system will fail. Game stores need to raise awareness about the rating system and the seriousness of it. They should have a big sign showing the different rating levels and stating VERY BIG that Mature games SHOULDN'T be played by people (children) under 17 (14-15 IMO)...
I know in my local Blockbuster they had huge posters in the video game section with teh rating system and exactly what it means but they never enforced, pretty stupid if you ask me. Yes retailers should be given huge fines if they break the selling/rating system. If the congressmen would pull there heads out of there asses and make a law that would fine retailers for selling games to young people, based on the rating, they could already be on the way to help solve this problem. This would be 100 Xs more effective than trying to ban video games sales.